Wooof.

(...he said, before taking a deep breath, holding his nose, and jumping into a pool that looked REALLY DEEP from the edge...)

I can honestly see where a deliberate, objective study of the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, The Solitary Witch, etc., could really give students a more complete understanding of subjects such as world history and civilization. It would do so for exactly the same reason the study of the Greco-Roman, Norse, and Druidic stories provides context and insight into those civilizations specifically, and European/world civilization in general.

That said, I'm sure not going to be the one to try and pitch it to a public school BOE, let alone ask a body to sit on that Board and try to defend it against all of the shrieking meemies who will call for their head on a platter (see what I did there?), all the while shouting about "tolerance!" and "hate speech!" and "separation of church and state!"

This is one area where private, parochial and home schools have a significant instructional advantage: they have no so-called constitutional mandate to ignore the existence of religion and its resulting impacts upon the world's peoples and events. Public schools almost HAVE to ignore this stuff, and their students suffer for it, I think.

Brave move Dave. I hope the water wasn't too cold. :)

J-j-justt-t hhhhand-d-dd mmmme that t-t-t-towel, wwwould 'ya?

PINES reports 312 books on the Koran, 294 on the Torah, and 9,590 for the bible. This is in addition to the availability of every version of every holy book online, along with countless supplemental resources.

Teachers barely have the resources to teach kids what they need to know just to function in modern civilization. Let's not burden them with a subject where the way it's understood and handled is very unique to each person and family.

I have no problem with an elective class on "World Religion" that examines various Holy texts. That said I have my doubts that some of our local Uber Christians would tolerate their snowflakes being asked to read verse from the Koran .

Plenty of government funded Churches to send your snowflakes to if that's your thing ,lets keep the religious instruction in those institutions.

The Bible is a magnificent book that contains truths about science, history, philosophy, astronomy, religion, governments and laws, cultures and many more subjects. Humanity has learned much from the study of its pages.

However, people that do not have a relationship with the author have never understood the great truths that are woven within its pages. They may see the fabric and admire its beauty but hidden within are the nuggets of real value that they can never understand and appreciate.

The Bible was given to mankind that each individual (whether rich-poor, educated-ignorant, young-old, no matter their social status or race) might come to know personally and intimately their Creator and experience for themselves His great love, mercy, grace.

The Bible was not given to mankind to be “taught "objectively" as part of a "secular" curriculum and not in any persuasive way”. From this study, only a down grading of something sacred to the profane will result.

So, because they can look it up in the library or online if they want to, we should not teach it? Wish I could have done that with Chemistry... ~_^

I'm teasing a bit, and I get where you all are coming from. Especially given the question of HOW such a subject might be taught, both from those who are pro-(any given religion), and those with an anti-(any given religion) standpoint. That doesn't even get into the subject of who would teach, how they would teach it, what resources would be used, etc.

I just think that impact of religion on the world in general is inescapable, that a true understanding of the history of the world and its peoples is impossible without at least touching on the subject, and that the Bible is among the most (if not the most) influential texts ever composed.

Like I said, though, I'd never try to get it into a public school, not only for the reasons I mentioned, but for the reasons you all bring up as well.

I grew up in a time, and a country, where the Bible was part of our History curriculum, along with other ancient civilizations such as Egypt, Rome, Mesopotamia, Greece. Included in our curriculum, however, were no more modern history topics such as WW I and WW II. When we were given a choice to elect to learn, without the fear of exams, one history topic of our choosing - those wars were what we chose. Maybe the Bible, or a collection of religions, could be a chosen elective - from a historical perspective.

@J Tolbert = I think that about sums it up, practically speaking. I disagree a bit on the jobs thing -- most people don't get jobs teaching English, but we study it every single year, even into college. You only have to look at Facebook comments to see how far THAT's getting people these days! ^_^

Still, you make good points.

Why not? Make it an elective as it is in a lot of colleges across the world. It might actually help some people.

A brief overview of world religions IS taught in Public schools in Georgia. during the seventh grade year, they are taught the very basic background beliefs of Christianity, Budism, Hinduism, Muslim, Judaism and other mythologies. This is so that the students understand how the religions color the cultures and influence the people who live there. Seventh Grade is the year that students cover the areas of Africa and Asia and since most of the religions of the world are found there, it fits nicely into the curriculum. It's nice for the students to see the similarities as well as the differences. Each religion is presented as: This is how it started, how it evolved, how it is practiced, and where it is still active - just very basic facts. None it presented as the "right or only" way. For children who have been raised in one religion, it may be the first time they have ever been told these background details. At Trickum, they even tried,several years ago, to have religious experts from different faiths come in to give more detail and answer questions, but they made the mistake of starting with a Muslim and the parents went nuts and had it cancelled. But I think an elective class at the high school level on World religions would be a wonderful next step to expand on what the kids know. There are many clubs, at the middle and high school level that meet on campus for different religions (including atheists).

@J Tolbert = I'm sorry, what are you disagreeing with? The fact that I think it's an influential book that many have interpreted for their own purposes and ends?

As for not wanting my kids to learn the Quran, you ARE incorect there, my friend. My personal religious beliefs are not threatened by whether or not my children are given in-depth knowledge of something besides that which I hold dear. If they were, what would that say about my own beliefs? A belief system that is threatened so by knowledge of other belief systems would be flimsy indeed.

As for heads of housholds, again, you're talking about what Bob Farrier was talking about, but from a different angle: we're NOT talking about teaching kids a religion. THAT WOULD BE WRONG in a public school setting, as I've already said. All I'm saying is that it might be useful to know ABOUT these religions in more detail than is currently taught. That's all.

That it's not a viable option is ALSO something I've mentioned once or twice.

@Dave, I was disagreeing with Bob. I agree with most of the points you made. Sorry I should've specified that. You are right it is not a viable option. Teachers can barely teach politics without putting in their personal views. I can only imagine what would happen if they started teaching religion. Granted I think there are some scholars that could do it, but what school district has the resources to add these scholars to their payrolls.

You're all saying the same thing in some shape or form in that for the sake of having well learned young men and women, offer "World Religion" as an elective. What that entails would be left to the school board to determine but the reality is that it would simply be offered as a history lesson and not necessarily religious teachings. Anything beyond that would have disgruntled parents picketing because the kids were offered a different perspective of said religious books teachings. The bible is the most used religious book and also the most controversial in that it's interpretation has led to more wars, cults and segregation than we'd like to admit. The place of worship for the family should also be the place kids get a more in-depth teaching of their respective religions while the schools should offer them no more than a historical presentation of the various and most dominant sects.

@Dave - you had to pick the coldest lake for us to go skinny dipping, I can see how the initial shock might overwhelm many of us into a temporary brain freeze. I'm getting my towel and kids and I'll take them to Sunday school instead. While I'm at it, I'd hope that like they offer electives in German, French, Japanese, Chinese and Spanish in school, my kids can be exposed to the history behind Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism etc. That just means I have to pay for their education or should I be calling it "Advanced Education"!?!!

Hehe, what can I say, Edward. I guess maybe I'm just a polar bear at heart, or either just a bit dense, one. =D I guess it was easier, since I knew I'd fall somewhere in between the "Absolutely yes!" crowd and the "Absolutely not!" response.

I wish that choice wasn't such a painful one for most people to make: paying out of pocket for that "Advanced Education," or taking what the government gives by way of our taxes. I think there are better ways of doing the job as a society than we currently are ... but then again, who doesn't?? That's a whole DIFFERENT lake, maybe an ocean!

Yes, let's teach the bible in school... because there's only one religion in the world and in america. ...and i totttttttttttttttttally want to pay for that [for your children] while churches escape paying any taxes and have sunday school, bible study, retreats, revivals, service, etc, etc, etc to learn the bible. if you want to learn the bible go to church. if you want prayer and biblical teachings in school, send your child to a religious school of your choosing.

An understanding of all religions should be the only religious teachings that happen in public schools. otherwise, we're only teaching the partially true history and mindset of one specific geographical culture in the balance of all human cultures that have existed to date.

when the conversation devolves into people screaming "my religion is the only one that is right because it's what i was taught," which innevitably happens, i always enjoy this chart.
http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

our plural society as guaranteed by our constitution = freedom of religion, and freedom from religion.

Amen to J Tolbert.

Christian, it sounds like you had that rant already spun up and ready to fly, but if you'll CALMLY re-read all the comments, you'll find that most of us are on the same page you are: teaching ABOUT religion is okay, but teaching ACTUAL RELIGION is not, not in a public school. Most of your stuff in the first paragraph is all covered under the "No, this is really what we're NOT asking about" category.

And I think only Bob tried to imply that his religion was the only right one, although I could understand if someone read one of my earlier comments that way. I, for one, simply meant that if my beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny, should I really be angry at everyone else for challenging them?

ranting is a hobby inspired by this debate. let's get a little civil discourse going on up in here. =)

Why not? Sounds like fun to me. ^_^ Btb, I think even Bob implied (unless I misread him) that if you aren't going to teach the Bible "correctly," then it shouldn't be taught at all. From his post,

"The Bible was not given to mankind to be “taught "objectively" as part of a "secular" curriculum and not in any persuasive way”. From this study, only a down grading of something sacred to the profane will result."

...which, honestly, isn't SO far off from what the rest of us were saying, either. There's going to be a ton of debate on how to do it "right," but the subject of religion in general IS pervasive and important. The current consensus of the group is, why not get down and dirty (if you will) in an elective-type class, but leave the current curriculum's overviews as they are.

They don't teach Creation but they do teach the theory of Evolution, that always interested me because they tell you up front it's just a theory.

Students should be taught religion in their church because every church has their own way of expressing their beliefs that is why there are so many churches. However there isn't one student that wouldn't do well to learn the ten commandments. Call it morales study or whatever you want but PC America is failing.

Heaven forbid we tell kids about Christ. They may grow up to be Republicans!

when bible morals and the 10 commandments were taken out of the schools ,so was simple eye hand cordination exercises as THAY felt like it wasnt needed ,
now years later and today u have a CERTAIN group of worker or persons that comes out to a job .who has no morals or principles ,has no eye hand cordination ,THERE very lazy and slow .and WHINE about every least little thing .it takes THEMB like 5 mins to put gloves on ?
THEY dont have any MACGUIVER SKILLS and everything has to be obama bot spelled out for THEMB .
when your around themb all they can talk about is doin crimes or what scheme THAY have for TAKING SOMEFINS FROM SOMEONE .
SINCE PARENTS ARENT TEACHING MORALS IT SHOULD FALL ON TEACHERS AND THE STATE .
AS IS THE STATE AND OUR TAX DOLLAS IS WHAT AT STAKE IN THE END IN ,INCARCERATION FEES WHEN thay finnaly go to jail .
thus taking the teaching of the 10 commandments out of schools is what at the root of our societys fail .and as far as athiest goes ,i work around alot and from what i see many were raised catholic and no use athiesm as an excuse to act inaproriate ,goin to girly bars ,cheating on there wives with woman after woman ,spreading diseases ,std's ect ,cheating on there taxes ,smokin dope . athiests are immoral degenerates

Can we try and keep the debate on the topic and not on any of the other posters. There is less chance of it deteriorating into a one-on-one argument that way, and we've done so well up until now.

Jump in a time machine and go back 150 years or so and you will find that the Christian bible was the ONLY book taught in most (if not all) schools.

True facts, Sammy. It's also true that you'd be hard pressed to find a single one of them that was run by the government - state, local or otherwise.

(I do assume you're talking about the U.S.)

Teaching the Bible in school is not technically a crime, but it is legally alienated by our Constitution. Just as much as it is legal to say whatever I want when/wherever it can be told/heard. I would love to see the Book of God be taught in any way to a class in a public school. However that is as likely as winning the lottery or seeing a blue moon more than a few times.

May not be the bible per se, but on page 415 of my daughter's "Georgia and the
American Experience" textbook it says "The pledge that is said daily
in our schools along with the words on the coins in our pockets - "In
God We Trust" - are reminders for us to have respect for our creator."
(with respect for our creator in red)

Now if they had said, reminders for believers to heave respect for
their creator I would be less upset, but this is saying it's a
reminder for EVERYONE to have respect for our creator. As an atheist
I find this offensive and it seems to be the public school telling
students to have respect for a creator that I believe doesn't exist. Anyone else have a problem with this?

My daughter's creator was her mother and I, and sure, she should respect us, but that is NOT what this passage is saying. Just because a majority believes in fairy tales doesn't mean everyone should.

I don't have access to that book at the moment, Steve, but I'm going to take your word that the book is NOT saying "As a country, this is what we've collectively decided to do, because thats what most of us believe - no stress if you don't" and that it's actually saying "You really should believe in the Creator-Fairy." If the latter is the case, then I agree: that should not be taught in a public school, even if I happen to be one of those "believers in fairy tales."

There's a great big difference between "Most Georgians believe in a Creator" and "We ALL believe, and so should you," and I keep coming back to this same point (despite the fact that people aren't really listening when I say it). Public schools should teach that such beliefs (plural) exist, their basic tenets, the effects they've had on history/society, etc. They should not (MUST not) cross the line into promotion of those systems. As most of us have said already, the place for that latter type of teaching is in the home, or in a group of believers freely assembled - NOT in a government school. We've also mostly agreed that trying to find an acceptable dividing line between the "here's what it is" and the "here's what to believe" is only even theoretically possible in an elective/optional environment, if at all.

a worthy read:
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2012/09/the-deism-of-americas-founding-fathers-vs-the-christian-right/#.UTiVZOXJcBI.facebook

NO

As part of understanding history, sociology, anthropology, religion, the Bible would be a text book. So would The Koran, Torah, etc. Of course they should taught but not promoted per se.

Why would the fables and tall tales of bronze age sheep herders be taught as "history" ?

I understand them perfectly, fictional works of ancient sheep herders arent that difficult to follow even when they speak of 500 year old men and talking snakes..

Grant, are you seem to consider ancient texts as an Odyssey, as in the Iliad and the Odyssey. But I don't guess you believe anyone wrote that either. Ever hear of Chaucer? How about William Tyndale? Tyndale was a cardinal during Henry VIII's reign. He had the courage and insight to translate the Bible from Greek to English and then transport it underground to people deprived of any reading material. Tyrants like Henry VIII, Stalin, and so must be your heroes.

Mary....

Huh? You want to try that again in English please?

I was with you when you compared The Bible with other fictional works but you kinda lost me on the whole crazy train that got you to Henry VIII & Stalin..

I'm not suggesting the books be "banned" only that they are not any sort of scientific or historic textbook and as such have no place in public schools in anything other than an elective class intent on teaching an overview of world religion?

Sorry... not enough time to teach the basic subjects.

I would rather my child be taught the basic subjects at school, not an interpretation of the Bible that may not be doctrinally sound. I take them to the Church of my choice for Bible study and instruction.

Echoing previous comments, I say NO, NO, NO. Teachers barely can teach the most important basics let alone attempt the job of religious leader.