Ray, I appreciate today's commentary. To date, no truer words have been spoken on the upcoming debacle known as TSPLOST. I was among those whose telephone number was randomly selected for Monday evening's telephone town hall meeting. I was not among those selected to ask a question during the Q & A session though. Last night, if I heard her correctly, Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners Chairwoman Charlotte Nash admitted that Gwinnett Transit is not financially sound, has very low ridership, and that one of the projects might be to help fund Gwinnett Transit so the funds would not have to come out of the county's General Fund. I ask you the question: "How would this relieve traffic congestion?" All we taxpayers would be doing would be to prop up a failing system by throwing good money after bad. I heard nothing on the telephone town hall meeting that would sway my postion on TSPLOST which is to vote NO July 31, 2012. I am more resolute than ever in doing my part between now and July 31, 2012, so as to "shorten the ring" and help deliver the knockout punch at the ballot box.

Ray, when you bought your home did the realtor tell you about the thousands of dollars of operating costs? What about maintenance costs? What about when you bought your car? I think everyone realizes there are O & M costs involved with transit, roads, bridges and other infrastructure so the argument that those supporting the T SPLOST are not telling the whole truth is specious.

I continue to believe that until there is a defined project list in October, I will remain neutral on the subject. Then and only then can I make an informed decision whether or not to support the issue

Ray, I disagree with Patrick. I am with you all the way on today's commentary. There are times when you do not need to sit back and let the enemy develop a nuclear option. You need to do a surgical strike and take out the enemy early on. TSPLOST represents the need for a surgical strike early on. Truth of the matter is that the politicians have no earthly idea as to where the funds would come from for ongoing O&M costs. My best guesstimate would be that they would come from "We the people" aka "We the taxpayers."

Taxpayers are going to be saddled with major on-going bills to pay as a result of expansion of light rail under the guise of relief from traffic congestion. I believe there needs to be a time when there is full disclosure on this issue, rather than the way it is being pitched now. Ten years is a long time and many dollars can be taken from the taxpayers to then be told that we have to extend the tax to keep the train going. Private investment has worked in the past, why not now, if this is such a great deal for somebody to make money. I am afraid to wait until this issue passes, only to then be hit with another, "Oh, yeah we forgot to tell you that there will be O and M beyond what has been voted!"

Jimmy, Ray and Steve Ramey all are operating under the assumption the MARTA extension and/or light rail makes the final list. I am operating under the assumption that until the final list is developed and approved by the executive committees of each roundtable, no one know what projects make the list.

While I value the opinions of these respected citizens (who I also consider friends) I disagree with their current positions on the T SPLOST. This exchange is a good example that thinking people can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Ray, maybe our homes and cars were not great examples so what about the SPLOST for Schools with the huge O & M costs to staff and operate. What about the SPLOST that paid for new fire stations with the associated operating cost. I have been lucky to never use the fire department and have no kids in school and yet I continue to pay for both. In a way I am subsidizing my neighbor and with 45% of all Americans paying no federal taxes, 55% subsidizes that 45%.

It is what a civilized society does into to provide for the quality of life they desire

why would we vote FOR the tax only to find out later how it will be used?

Same tune second verse if you vote for TSPLOST, it's gonna get worse. I am not assuming anything, Patrick. I am doing a surgical strike early on to take out TSPLOST before it takes me out. Yes, we live in a civilized society in which taxes are necessary to fund the CORE services of local, state, and Federal governmets. Call it subsidizing if you wish but, paying for public safety and public works which includes their upkeep is a way of life I have no problems with. I fully understand that county government must levy taxes and incur bond debt to facilitate both. It is when our government strays away from those CORE services that I have a problem with. This is what, in my opinion, Ray writes about in today's commentary. I fail to see how the inclusion of developer's choo choos on the unconstrained project list will relieve traffic congestion. Maybe I am missing something, but I do not believe that same are among the CORE services which should be funded by government. Another issue I have a problem with is the deferral of the incremental increase in property taxes within a Tax Allocation District by local governments and local school boards. Where is the entrepreneurial spirit here that Ray speaks of? Matter of fact, my personal opinion is that it is morally wrong to take one dime away from public education to support a private enterprise venture. (to be continued)

I will not pay an extra penny for an express service to Atlanta. Not everyone works in Atlanta. As far as the county bus system, it was never offered to Dacula, just Lawrenceville, Duluth and Norcross. Why should we pay to help Atlanta?

(Orr - continuation) I do not drink the kool-aid that causes one to think that at the end of the bond life cycle associated with a Tax Allocation District that the county treasury will oveflow with the increase in property tax revenues. It "ain't gonna" happen. Ray, I wonder likewise where the entrepreneurial spirit has gone. Whatever happen to the great captains of industry in America that we grew up knowing and reading about?

we are being taxed for a road already paid for - the HOT lane on 85 , which has no exits built in so drivers will have to exit as soon as they enter it to go onto 285. Does anyone know what that will cost? Dacula desperately needs a new bridge over the RR on Dacula Road, but we haven't negotiated very well to get that on the list. We need an outer perimeter but too many communities cried " not in my backyard" so for the last 20 years traffic has remained awful. I wish some politicians would grow up and do what is best for the county/state not what is popular. I won't vote to increase my taxes until I know exactly what "lock box" the funds are going into for specific projects. Maybe private investment can come up with something that really works local government can't.

We cannot tax ourselves out of this mess. Private investors of yesterday are gone because government has insisted on using "other people's money, " (taxpayers.) By the time government is finished adding regulations on top of all the other requirements private investors walk away throwing up their hands on projects and keeping their money in their bank accounts. It seems we are never at a loss for "good ideas" from government on how to separate taxpayers from more of their money to be used in another government funded project that never comes in under the cost estimate. Cost overrunners means more and higher taxes.

Our society is built on convenience and comfort. When I talk to people about the light rail, they say it would be too inconvenient for them to ride, but they want it built so their neighbor will ride which will allow them to zip into Atlanta without any trafic. If you won't ride because it is inconvenient, what makes you think your neighbor wants to be inconvenienced? Do you really think they are all going to get on the train for your benefit? You don't know human nature!

The "light rail" in Gwinnett will not reduce trafic congestion. It will be a streetcar bus with overhead wires running down the center of roads that currently have turn lanes. If there is an accident in an intersection, it will sit in trafic with the cars until the intersection clears. If a car is in the turn lane waiting to turn, the "light rail" will wait until the car turns and clears the lane. HB277 (state law) says is to be implemented for "highest potential economic benefit"--not for elimination of trafic congestion.

If you want less trafic congestion, you are the answer--find ways to reduce the number of trips you make and the number of miles you drive on Gwinnett County roads. If everyone does that, we can make a difference.

From the many comments today we can know there are many questions still unaswered on this issue, and the questions we have the answers to have raised many other concerns. This issue will continue, and we need to learn as much as we can about what we are being asked to do, and what will happen when we lock into another tax increase.

Ray, I was listening in on the telephone town hall meeting Monday evening to a comment a man from Bethlehem made. He implied that TSPLOST would bring us into the 21st. Century. Am I missing something here? I though we were already in the 21st. Century. As for light rail, whether it is called developer's choo choos (my favorite), light rail, or streetcars, it is 19th. Century technology. Also, remember that to be effective, a public transit system must have a definitive "HUB" where the transit systems routes originate/terminate. Translated, this means that the ridership would be going to the major location of business and commerce (downtown) or going to the major location in which would enable them to transfer to other routes that would take them to their designated place of business and commerce. Another thing to remember, and this might be a point that Ed Varn was making in another Dacula Patch article, is why would a group plan to spend an estimated $5 to $6 million dollars to "educate" the public as to why they should vote for TSPLOST unless there was an ulterior motive in doing so? Perhaps the concept of TSPLOST is to "educate" us and introduce us to the "new" Five Points in downtown Atlanta which, in my opinion, would be the new multimodal terminal being built on the former railroad properties known as the "gulch" which supposedly would be the originating/terminating point for all means of transit in Metro Atlanta. ( to be continued)

(Orr - continuation) If the "new" Five Points in downtown Atlanta is to become the major "HUB" for Metro Atlanta, you best pack a lunch and take an overnight bag with a change of clothes or at least take a copy of "Gone With The Wind" to read. You should complete the novel by the time you reach your destination. FYI, Ray, I had a former executive of a major corporation agree with me on the "new" Five Points in downtown Atlanta. No sir, Ray, we are not being told the truth.

Exactly, Jimmy. And keep in mind: in the history of the world, you'll have to look mighty hard to find where a tax, once imposed, was ever done away with.