Briscoe Citizens' Review Committee Stifled
We wanted to provide an update on the April 16 Briscoe Citizens Review Committee not just because of the information provided by the FAA which confirmed if Briscoe Field is expanded, Gwinnett County government will have no ability to regulate operations, including approach patterns, holding patterns, number of daily flights, size of aircraft, or limit the hours of flight operations.
From our perspective as observers, the more important issue is that the committee is being denied access to information, companies and people who could provide information upon which a sound decision could be made.
The resolution chartering the Citizens’ committee indicated access to consultants would be allowed, in February the DOT staff identified Mike Boyd, a prominent aviation industry consultant, to give the committee an overview of the passenger aviation industry. Originally, Mr. Boyd was to address the committee via phone call. In mid-March the DOT staff informed the committee that due to scheduling conflicts Mr. Boyd could only respond to written questions, even though the committee members indicated they were willing to adjust meeting dates and times to fit Mr. Boyd’s schedule.
Yesterday the DOT staff attempted to skip over the scheduled input from Mike Boyd and guide the committee into some type of issue reconciliation process which would lead to a committee recommendation. When questioned by committee members the DOT staff indicated Mr. Boyd was biased on the subject.
When questioned the DOT staff said Mr. Boyd's independence was unclear because he has consulted for Delta Airlines in the past.
Fortunately, members of the committee held their ground pointing out that perhaps Mr. Boyd's prior engagement with Delta may be an indication of his qualification and that perhaps his opinion should be heard, and demanded the agreed upon information from Mr. Boyd be presented at the April 23 Committee meeting.
We can only surmise why the Citizens’ committee established to help bring “transparency to the process as well as provide useful information and recommendations during the potential privatization process” has been stifled. However we can state, without reservation, someone is attempting to control the information flow to the committee and to You the public.
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
4:28 pm on Tuesday, April 17, 2012
Did they change the membership for the committee?
I didn’t remember seeing an “Edith” or an “Archie” listed anywhere, however , there are a number of Meat Heads…
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
5:59 pm on Tuesday, April 17, 2012
Hartsfield airspace plan may have repercussions across DeKalb, Gwinnett
http://www.ajc.com/news/hartsfield-airspace-plan-may-1393556.html
The Federal Aviation Administration proposal calls for allowing planes at the international airport to fly as low as 4,000 feet above the ground and extending the Class B space, which is handled by air traffic controllers.
As a result, jets flying into DeKalb-Peachtree Airport, the state's second busiest airport, would need to be lower, longer over neighborhoods stretching from central DeKalb County and well into Gwinnett.
Agency reports show the change is needed to handle crowded skies made more busy with the 2006 addition of a fifth runway at Hartsfield-Jackson.
People living near PDK have complained about those problems with the county-owned airport for 20 years. This time, residents and airport officials appear to be on the same side – as do many of the written comments already posted with the FAA.
John
10:08 pm on Tuesday, April 17, 2012
What's the deal with this issue? Didn't 95% of the area residents clearly state they do NOT want to expand the damn airport? Why is it even being talked about still?
Better Gwinnett
8:55 am on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Because the BOC, which has voted 3 times to move forward on expanding Briscoe, will soon be voting on whether to accept the proposal from Propeller Investments to initiate scheduled passenger aviation.
GregRodgers
9:34 am on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Wait...in the Hartsfield article did I read?:
"Officials at the DeKalb County airfield, though, have warned that change means many of their 400-plus daily flights will linger over neighborhoods as they come and go. They have urged residents to push back against what they say will be increased noise and pollution.
“I just think if my flights are lower longer, those flights are impacting more people, more citizens,” said Mike Van Wie, PDK's airpport director. “If there is more noise and more pollution, we expect more complaints.”
This cannot be right....aren't we being told be Fly Gwinnett Forward and Propeller that noise and pollution shouldn't be a problem. I mean they say the planes are quiet.
Those darn residents and Dekalb Airport officials must be lying....noise and pollution...thats not what the good people of Gwinnett are being told about Briscoe.
I mean.....a couple miles north....WE SIMPLY WILL NOT HAVE THESE PROBLEMS according to Fly Gwinnett and Propeller.
The airport in Dekalb has had their share of 400 flight days already.
They must not know what they are talking about.
Chip M
12:02 pm on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Greg, do I sense a hint of sarcasm in your post?
The BoC will continue to push this because they want it to go through, despite what the good citizens of Gwinnett think or want. There must be money to be had.
I'm still enjoying the 'benefits' of my county-provided trash program...
GregRodgers
12:22 pm on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Chip..
No...no backroom deals. The BoC has never been dishonest. Its just good for us all. No one stands to make money off of this deal, except a few honest Businessmen.
Just remember this will bring like...20 to 50 thousand jobs to the area.
Because that's what Propellar and Fly Gwinnett said...so it must be true. Its a fact...they have a crystal ball. Plus it won't be noisy. They swear on it...I mean even the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce knows it to be true.
Thank Goodness!!
John
10:01 am on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
I've been watching this situation from afar. Checking in every few months or so. That is why it surprises me to see that it is still on the table. Who are the main organized groups that are against this? Perhaps it's time we all unite and make it very clear we do not want Briscoe to be expanded. November is right around the corner. The BOC is clearly ignoring the people most affected by this expansion. I live 5 or 6 miles from there and even I don't want it. Who are the groups involved in this?
rhelm
11:15 am on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Even the current small prop planes have become a complete nuisance. Their approach over Fence Road and low altitude is enough to rattle the windows every 15 minutes. At times it sounds like a screaming motorbike or some knuckleheads exhaust on his ‘racing’ Honda civic is revving in your driveway! And these people have the audacity tell us that expansion is good thing??
GregRodgers
12:17 pm on Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Rhelm...
No...you must have it wrong. Again...Fly Gwinnett and Propeller say that noise from the much larger planes is minimal. So the small planes you see...don't make any noise at all.
So it should be ok for bigger one because that's what we have been told.
So you are wrong....and Propellar and Fly Gwinnett are right.
So everything is ok now. No need to worry about bigger planes.
Floyd Akridge
12:15 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Actually Greg, don't equate size and noise. Easy to do but not always accurate. A jet, or multi-engine plane, for instance, has a greater Vy rate of climb and thus, even if a bit louder, wouldn't seem so to local residents. You should stand next to PDK, as I did at work, when one of those nice Gulfstream jets takes off. Even at less than a 1/10th of a mile away the noise is still amazingly absent. Gulfstream did their homework fer sure.
GregRodgers
12:08 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
Floyd...We are not talking about Gulfstream Airplanes we are talking about 737. Yes...I have stood outside at Hartsfield when a 737 takes off...I can report...Its not Quiet. Also, the residents around PDK are the ones complaining. In the article, I've posted above it states:
"“I just think if my flights are lower longer, those flights are impacting more people, more citizens,” said Mike Van Wie, PDK's airpport director. “If there is more noise and more pollution, we expect more complaints.”
So what is that you are saying about noise at PDK? The director at the airport seems to contradict what you are saying. Plus the people that live near that airport even with the small aircraft HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING!!...so with reading that you think that there will not be complaints with bigger aircraft. Next, you will say you want us to believe that Gingrich could've gotten us $2.50 gas if he was elected....LOL
.
GregRodgers
9:16 am on Monday, April 30, 2012
Hey Floyd...
If your Gulfstreams are so quite....why are there HUGE restictions on them taking off and landing at John Wayne Airport In CA...under its Noise Abatement Policy
http://www.ocair.com/generalaviation/ganoise.aspx
From the webite:
Warning:
Based on available historical noise data gathered by the Access and Noise Office and as determined by the Airport Director, the following list of aircraft are presumed incapable of meeting noise limitations defined in the GANO and are not permitted to land, tie down, take off or be based at the Airport, except in an emergency (this list is periodically updated and is maintained by the Access and Noise Office, 949.252.5185):
Aircraft Presumptively Incapable of Nighttime Departure Operations:
•Gulfstream II, IIB, III
Aircraft Presumptively Incapable of Nighttime Arrival Operations:
•Gulfstream II, IIB, III
Really?
Stop pushing nonsense Floyd..and stop making up stuff to support your good bud Mike and his cash grabbing friends!
"
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
11:46 am on Thursday, April 19, 2012
The BOC wants a revenue steam so that they DON’T have to listen to voting property tax owners. Sadly, their “dreams and visions “ BECOME our Nightmares.
Floyd Akridge
12:20 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
mawgawd R...what a foolish and unsupportable statement.
Bev Lougher
5:38 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
Propeller projects adding 20,000 jobs if the airport is commercialized under their management. Someone pointed out that the Gwinnett County School System with 133 schools employs 11,000 teachers. This little 500 acre airport is going to employee 20,000 people? This is not even logical and the blatant inflation of all their projections for this airport is insulting to our intelligence. No noise 737's, 20,000 jobs, and revenue in the billions making this area the best place to live in the country. I do not understand why our BOC, with their new Ethics Policy in place, would even negotiate with this group.
Floyd Akridge
12:18 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Bev...be honest. It's a certain number of jobs that are generated by the airport not AT the airport. hartsfield generates hotel jobs, maintenance jobs, FAA jobs, etc...
Furthermore, NO ONE has suggested "No Noise 737's" as you claim.
Stop exaggerating to try to make points.
GregRodgers
9:36 am on Monday, April 23, 2012
Actually Floyd...I believe it was Brett Smith who said....I can land a 737 at Briscoe Right now and I'd bet that no one would even know because they are so quiet...so yes...Brett did make that claim.
From Brett Smith:
"As for noise, Smith plans to prove homeowners have no need to worry.
“The general aviation airplanes that are currently flying out of there are noisier than the next generation aircraft the airlines fly,” Smith said. “That train that goes by the airport is 10 times louder.”
Smith would not disclose the date, but said within the next few weeks he plans to hold a demonstration at the airport.
“I’m going to land a 737 and, four minutes later, a plane that currently goes in there is going to land. A few minutes later, the 737 will take off and the other plane will take off and people can judge for themselves,” he said. The time of the demonstration will be announced a few days in advance.
Find it here:
http://dacula.patch.com/articles/airport-privatization-proponent-speaks-out#video-5099918
Dacula Truth
5:38 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
"We can only surmise why the Citizens’ committee established to help bring “transparency to the process as well as provide useful information." Isn't that the pot calling the ketel black!!!! One of the founders of Better Gwinnett who has always been against the airport is on the committee. PLEASEEEE.
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:48 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
It called balance and the first round had just as many GIT R DONE NOW! types as lets not rush down the road...
Thats good as long as the chairman doesn't ramrod things through on a close vote EVERY time.
Kristi Reed
10:46 am on Monday, April 23, 2012
To GregRodgers and everyone: Just FYI - Brett Smith never did hold that demonstration. When I asked about it a short time after the interview Greg referenced, he said there wasn't any point in holding it at that time. I don't know if or when he still plans to do it.
GregRodgers
11:58 am on Monday, April 23, 2012
Right Kristi....I never heard that he did the demo....I was just pointing out that he did say that the 737's were so quiet that it would not bother the residents.
Kristi Reed
12:06 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
Hi Greg - I understand. I just wanted to emphasize that he really did say that and that the demo has not yet been done (he said at the time it would be done within a few weeks and that was in March of 2011).
Brian Crawford
12:42 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the only way you folks are going to stop the privatization of Briscoe field is to forget the polite politics of the Citizens Review Committee (which in reality is just a tool for those in power to claim they've given you a voice), and get loud. Have you considered staging an Occupy Briscoe Field? Have there been demonstrations? Have you canvased the surrounding neighborhoods door to door to garner support?
The Social Networking appeals don't seem to be working very well. My son bought a house directly in the flight path last year and had no idea this was happening until just recently.