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Community Standards Must Be Followed, Even in Strip Clubs

We know from experience across the country that the consumption of alcohol in a place where nudity is allowed is an invitation to disaster. The Supreme Court has determined communities can set standards for these establishments.

It is easy to get a controversy started. All one needs do is express an opinion rooted in a traditional moral or ethical position and there are people who disagree.  

Many people are willing to let all the barriers down allowing for what they see as total freedom. There are people advocating for no age limits in regard to issues related to alcohol or consent laws regarding sexual activity.

It seems any time a person or group of people point to traditional family values or morals rooted in the fabric of our country, there are others who complain that morals and old fashioned ideas are being forced on them. All laws are founded upon a set of moral standards agreed upon by the majority of the people in a culture. In every civilization we know of people who try to bend the rules to see how far they can push the limits the other way.

As law abiding citizens band together to set standards by which they want to live in community, there are others who insist they have an obligation to break the rules and live as they choose rather than going by the already established limits of conduct and behavior.

From the beginning of civilization people have needed rules by which they will live. It is the generally accepted viewpoint that stealing another person’s property is not allowed. Conduct has been monitored and restrictions of behavior are part of the make up of every society. When a community determines it does not want a certain behavior or establishment within the limits of the community, we have agreed they have the right to set the standards of conduct that will be allowed.

Our Supreme Court has established that community standards are to be determined by the citizens of the community. When a people determine they do not want a liquor store within sight of a school or house of worship, they are not imposing their old fashioned ideas but seeking to assure safety for those who attend school and frequent a house of worship. Because of the history of certain establishments across the country, a local community has the right to say they will allow a strip club but will limit the range of activity within the club to align with community standards.

The age old argument of insisting that those who disagree with removing all barriers “just move out of the neighborhood” is not valid. The community of people banding together do have the right to make their choices as to what businesses are within their borders.

We would all agree (I trust) it would be a mistake to allow for the sale of alcohol with the school lunch. We know from experience across the country that the consumption of alcohol in a place where nudity is allowed is an invitation to disaster. From where I stand, a community has the right to set the standards of conduct and the allowances of behavior in such establishments.

Follow Ray Newman on Twitter @RayNewmanSr

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"E Pluribus Unum" February 07, 2013 at 02:44 AM
Ray, go away with your brand of morality. Stick with the fine folks of Winder who are living in your backyard. To think some hick preacher is commenting on local issues affecting Brookhaven? You're trolling.
What goes around comes around February 07, 2013 at 03:33 AM
Was that a Freudian slip to say "no holes barred" or did you mean "no holds barred"? And just to be clear, are you indicting the entire state of California in being without morals? But you're OK with them bringing their dollars into our local economy? And just to be clear, do "Conservatives" like you place "Centrists" in the same box as "Liberals"?
R++ One of the Famous Dacula Crew February 07, 2013 at 04:36 AM
Some seem to be afraid of the light...
R++ One of the Famous Dacula Crew February 07, 2013 at 04:49 AM
@Eddie After rereading the article, it doesn't seem to single out your neck of the woods - unless the stock photo insert is what you are referring to. But it would appear that you actually agree with the local standards position, since you feel that someone in Winder shouldn't have input to Brookhaven. Winder seems a lot closer than DC - relatively speaking. Morals? Just like everything else there are alternatives... It's all relative in the end apparently. Girls, Girls, Girls
Marie February 07, 2013 at 07:38 AM
Eddie, I have been in Georgia and except for the chiggers, humidity, and 80 kinds of snakes in which 2 kinds are poisonous & I can't see them if I am hiking through tall grass...I loved the place. I talked with a waitress that moved there from California about why she moved there. She told me that there were a lot of gangs in California & her kids didn't have problems with that in Georgia. She said that if a gang member shows up they take them down to the river for a baptizing...and if they don't see the light and repent...they keep getting baptized until what's left is for the alligators to eat. smile....it was a good joke. That almost convinced me to move there. Believe me, if you have lived in a liberal state...you would rather move to another country than stay there if you have any moral values & want to raise your kids right. Maybe the solution she mentioned should be employed at the strip clubs...laugh.
Marie February 07, 2013 at 07:41 AM
Our morality is not generated from superstition. However, evolution is. If women really believed that their babies came from apes there would be a lot more abortions. Thats not where mine would come from.
Marie February 07, 2013 at 07:51 AM
Actually, I found the gators interesting. So was watching guys fishing for sharks. And the bicycle ride across America was fun too. We brought our own bicycles but the humidty said that we should stay inside...which we didn't. Although we usually ride 50-200 miles we only rode about 10 because we ran out of water and the heat was deadly. And I love the way people from Georgia talk. My dad's side of the family is from Arkansas, Tennessee, & Texas and I have been all through the south. I miss the accent where I grew up. Love your peaches and nuts. And I can get a good breakfast for a reasonable price...and a big glass of orange juice is great! And restaurants where I live don't have grits & I love 'em. Only negative was all food seems to be fried, fattening, and it is almost impossible to get a good, big salad or a plate of fresh steamed vegetables. Florida wasn't as nice as Georgia...and I intend to return to Georgia again someday. And people have manners which they don't in many states. Waitresses call the guys honey (out of staters don't always realize that they do that with everyone) and kids show respect towards adults (probably saves their ears from getting slapped...laugh). In general I liked a lot about the place & I think its a great place for tourists...most of the year.
Marie February 07, 2013 at 08:13 AM
Just tell Rick that if he liked Las Vegas he should move there. I've been there...it's not where I would want to live or stay for more than 2 days. Lots of gangs, violence, drugs, & prostitutes. Even Lake Tahoe has problems although I absolutely love the lakes, mountains, & hiking there...rafting down the river, snow stuff etc. The Deathride which we have done many times is a yearly event...a 150 mile bicycle ride over 5 moutain passes. But the place also has problems. Every year the motorcycle run brings in the worst crowd & there have been shootings in restaurants, etc. because of it. Lots of shops close down when they come to town in Virginia City, Nevada because everyone is drunk by noon. Anywhere there is gambling there is corruption. Motels hire illegals for cheap wages so social welfare programs are abundant. Its a better place to visit than to live. Northern California is a lot different than southern California. Each county is different. Lots of problems with government public land being used to grow or make illegal drugs...with mexican gang members doing the work & they are willing to kill anyone who finds their location. Drugs & drunk driving are real problems. So are gangs & violence. And all of those things cost the local government plenty. So if you have morality where you live...you will have to pay less taxes & have a better quality of life. Savannah, Georgia was nice to see...love your sweet tea. If you could just get rid of the chiggers!
Marie February 07, 2013 at 08:25 AM
I was lucky enough to meet only nice people in Georgia. Not those who complain about the old fashioned morality which turns off visitors. After all, what kind of tourists do you want? The ones that are gang members, transport illegal drugs, engage in drunk driving & get into fights when they drink to much? I don't think that the strip clubs will attract the kind of tourists you want. You know...the ones that the police don't have to monitor & arrest. The drunk drivers. The drug dealers. The ones that make their money legally. Just take a look at what it is like in the Netherlands when they made every immoral thing legal. When we arrived at the train station the intercom told us not to carry packpacks because of theives. We had to go to a particular place to get a list of safe motels because drug addicts would break into rooms day & night. The first thing I saw was a broken window at a jewelry store. And the "legal" prostitutes were often sex slaves held against their will. Sounds a little like San Francisco.
Marie February 07, 2013 at 08:32 AM
Had a typo- I meant the tourists you don't want are the drunk drivers and drug dealers. The tourists you want are the ones that make their money legally. I have been to half of the USA and 5 countries in Europe. And I like Georgia just fine. I have a hard time believing that some people online here are are from Georgia...they are probably from some organization that likes to denounce morality in every state & country. Ya'll have a nice night, ye hear?
Tammy Osier February 07, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Funny people are asking if I'm new - lolol. I've seen no less than 5 new folks on here ( also noticed others who are missing- wonder if people just change their names?) and had hoped for a good exchange when I didn't see others on here who stir the puddin'. Oh well. I'll get more done in my real life vs my cyber life. patch is no more than a tabloid anymore. Too bad.
Eddie E. February 07, 2013 at 05:35 PM
Marie, I wondered how long you would ramble till you got back to superstition. Your notion that 'evolution is based on superstition' demonstrates clearly your lack of a clue. Only in religious (aka superstitious) circles would cavemen ever ride dinosaurs.
Eddie E. February 07, 2013 at 05:42 PM
R. The 'problem' with that freedom thingy is that it allows people to act as they wish as long as they leave other people alone. The 'problem' with moralists is they believe they are empowered to know how other people should act and generally refuse to leave them alone. I am just baffled as to why out of the blue, a new municipality deems it important to start a new 'war on strip clubs' as if there is not a mountain of REAL PROBLEMS to deal with........ Unless they maybe have ties to law firms that will profit from one side or the other off the backs of the TAXPAYERS.
don Gabacho February 09, 2013 at 07:32 PM
"Good grief folks. The Pony is just a joint for DKPD to hang out at."---Roger That Too highbrow for you?
jimmie February 10, 2013 at 05:35 AM
This surprise anyone? Hey, you morons that say crime dont happen in nighclubs versus say Shoneys, read on..from tonights ajc... Ten people were arrested early Saturday at an Atlanta nightclub, and some were charged with nude dancing without a permit. Atlanta police spokesman Officer John Chafee said the arrests were made just before 3 a.m. at Déjà Vu on Joseph E. Boone Boulevard in northwest Atlanta. Channel 2 Action News said the club’s owner was charged with a liquor license violation and an unidentified disc jockey was held on narcotics charges. The station also said eight strippers were arrested. Chafee said charges were filed over the alleged sale of marijuana but he did not elaborate. The names of the individuals and the charges they face were not immediately available.
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 06:10 PM
"To stay on topic, the story is about communities getting to decide what their standard will be."---Tammy Osier Since when are the lawyers, in public office or allowed to advise, "the community"?
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 06:31 PM
"Local citizens making their decisions..."---Ray Newman How is it that you can conflate lawyers in public office, and who are citizens to Brookhaven also, and lawyers allowed to advise, who are not citizens to Brookhaven, "to be [the] local citizens"? As you would the vertible squadron of non-citizen "butinski" state legislators, mayors and even governor driving this City of Brookhaven still? Just as their was no "public mandate" to conceive this city, there has been no "public mandate" to pick on the Pink Pony. It is a deliberate charade.
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 06:42 PM
""From the beginning of civilization people have needed rules by which they will live.'"---Ray Newman No Sir. As always "civilized people have needed laws by which they will live" and not rules by which they are ruled.
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 07:18 PM
"They've moved thousands of miles, located afforable housing to start a hard scrabble existence to improve theirs and their children's lot in life. "---Enuff Govt Already Through no fault of their own, that is the pap sold and swallowed. ...picking a fight with them [the Pink Pony] was stupid..."---Enuff Govt Already What has become "stupid" is the public's failure to also perceive the (at this stage) city managers' motive for picking on the PP: to deflect from what they are indeed doing elsewhere while making themselves look good. While its time to begin "gentrification" (real estate raiding) including (not excluding) the Hispanic "gentry" of their "Hispanic Outreach." Watch out Chamblee and Doraville. Which will become even greater service cities satelite to elitist B'Haven.
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 07:38 PM
"I am just baffled as to why out of the blue, a new municipality deems it important to start a new 'war on strip clubs'..."---Eddie Because the city-founders' handlers are convinced, as they have always been, that appealing (no matter how falsely), to the gringos' puritanism, will utlimately serve (as, so far, it always has) their (corporatist) ends. It is a glowing carrot on a very mean stick.
Curb your Pet February 11, 2013 at 08:09 PM
Eddie E as a businessman you must recognize that the value of your commercial property is compared with and dependent on the sales prices of other similar parcels. There is a fairly strong case, pretty ironclad, that commercial property is devalued by certain uses; ie liquor stores, pawn shops, and even strip clubs. Legally, the concept is called 'adverse secondary uses' whereby the area around one of these uses degrades over time. One could argue that Corporate Square is insular from the Pink Pony, that Buford Highway is unaffected by such uses. But what if a brand new 22,000SF Love Shack would open at Clairmont and New Peachtree? That's what happened with Johns Creek and they paid a small fortune to litigate the Love Shack. That is what Brookhaven seeks to avoid, plus, many people simply don't want that use in their neighborhood, for reasons unrelated to commercial property value. Your and don G., Hammy, and the rest of the gang have been seeking a deep conspiracy, which is really sad.
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 08:32 PM
"...don G., Hammy, and the rest of the gang have been seeking a deep conspiracy..."---Curb Your Pet Wrong. I never sought "a deep conspiracy." It sought, and found, me---beginning a long time ago. BTW, have you read any Mx comic books lately? Been the object of one's production?
Curb your Pet February 11, 2013 at 08:40 PM
You and your Mexican government rant are just plain weird. Each and every blogger that is concerned about 'play-for-pay' or 'lawyers ponying up to oust the Pink Pony' or any of it really come down to old fashioned political differences. Citification is a GOP idea, so Dems oppose it. Some opposed city-hood because they mistakenly believe nobody every tried to reconcile issues with DeKalb. That argument is specious, and simply untrue. You are an odd bird, but I don't mind your devotion to making sure America stays safe from your perception we are at risk from the 'burrito menace.' It takes all kinds...
don Gabacho February 11, 2013 at 09:20 PM
"You and your Mexican government rant are just plain weird..."---Curb Your Pet What is "weird" is your inability or unwillingness to get past your perception by asking, or answering, even one question. In other words learn something. "...you are an odd bird, but I don't mind your devotion to making sure America stays safe from your perception we are at risk from the 'burrito menace.'"---Curb Your Pet "Burrito menance"? You are an "odd bird." "It takes all kinds..." CYP, it does not. What it does take is one who has had the experience of having lived in Mexico and not only knowing what that government is all about, including stateside, but also knowing that government's players, with offices of that government in both Mexico and right here, and knowing also just who they are playing with right here. I asked you: "BTW, have you read any Mx comic books lately? Been the object of one's production?" Will you even now get past any of your presumptions about even Mx comic books and be enlightened? Learn something?
Curb your Pet February 11, 2013 at 09:40 PM
OK don G, lay the comic book on us! I am not really a comic book reader, but do share your obscure point.
jimmie February 11, 2013 at 09:44 PM
Nice reading everyone..got to go shower and get ready for council meeting attendance. Although this one seems to have a boring agenda
phil c May 24, 2013 at 02:28 AM
Ray Newman, jimmie, don Gabacho, Tammy Osier, Marie, et all: Your white sheets are ready at the tailors now, most of you men wear size 38 regular, don't you? And you ladies look so cute in the white hoods and matching swastika earings. While you're enforcing your narrow-minded hatred and bigotry on everyone else, why don't you change the town name from Brookhaven to Very White, and pass laws that not only requires a gun in every house, but a cross on every yard and loyalty oaths to the invisible man who lives in the sky who knows what you are thinking before you do. If there is such an entity and he actually knew what you demagogues were really thinking, he would strike you dead for the gross distortion and perversion of everything that is actually written in that sci-fi novel you worship; what's it called...oh yeah, the Bible. You have the audacity to call yourselves Christians, when most of your wouldn't know or lead a Christian life if it bit you on the leg. BTW: the Flintstones was not a documentary.
Brookhaven Maven May 24, 2013 at 03:46 AM
You can't legislate morality. In case you all missed it, the Pink Pony pays over $465,000 a year in taxes, permits and fees. http://thebrookhavenpost.net/?p=4860 $465,000 will fix a lot of potholes, improve a lot of park deficiencies, and even pay for a couple of extra police officers. Assign them to watch for drunk drivers leaving the Pony, and you can generate another couple of hundred thousand bucks a year in DUI citations. So far as community standards go, you have to ask yourself this: "How am I directly negatively affected by some guy from Doraville (Chamblee, Dunwoody, New York, Iowa. Brookhaven, Alabama, New Jersey) having a beer while he watches a girl get undressed?" My guess is -- wait for it -- not at all.
jimmie May 24, 2013 at 12:32 PM
I just know the enemy Dick and I pray God reacts the same way he did to Saddam and Gomorrah.
jimmie May 24, 2013 at 12:39 PM
Waaaahhhhhh, Waaaaahhhhh, somebody stole Dicks eye liner.....Waaaaaahhh. When Satan knows his days are numbered, he will release his angels to try and deceive as many as possible, Meet Dick..one of the angels meant to pervert the traditional family...see him for what he is...if he is a he..if he even knows...

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